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Post by Mingeford on Feb 19, 2008 18:20:59 GMT
With regards to the revolution, Record exec's are clever but still human, the machine does not and cannot monitor every facet of popular culture as this is to large a task without the monitor's spilling into civvy street and airing it to a someone witha mouth as loud as mine. Punk always takes a hardline approach which draw's in the angry and outcasted youth of today but since the big surge of 77 the ethics stayed similar but the mainstream appeal has weakened unless it's some turdlip witha hitler hairdo or poser puffy pisslips and his spaceship drumkit. These guy's have been stripped of a soul, and a history, listen, when you hear the shite dribble off the lips of mcfly, or "insert any band name popular in pop's" they have a sweet voice, but it's stripped of personality, like you can't figure out who they are, where they've been and what theyve done. When I hear Keith Caputo singing let's pretend I can see him clinging to the ghost of his mum, or finding his dad dead in a puddle of his own o'd induced vomit or when anti flag scream die for your goverment i see a very dissillusioned angry young lyricist penning his revolt, I can see that, I can feel it, of course Coldplay have nice vocal's and the word's, just the word's alone can relate to anyone beside's John Merrick who's ever had a date... I'm gonna call this relation or emotion. Where's the line drawn .... Ive digressed but I'll bring it back, the line is drawn in the mind, do you see what the band see or do you relate to something and see what is an obvious subject so youthink your seeing but actually their making you think your seeing what the band see. Sounds confusing but it's not, when I hear a local band, If they feel what they say, I feel it, I may not share their ideal's but I share their alienation and passion.Now for the scientific part.. back to punk, it's obvious that we will never see a band with a true revolutionary outcry make it to the top(black eyed pea's where is the love was mindless shite and american ediot was green day's way of cashing in on the anti-republican teen angst market, good market at the time of war), the execs don't want it, goverment doesnt want the turmoil, police would have a feild day... this is because it's too obvious, saying fuck the goverment will get you lot's of subvert fan's but not schoolkid's or mums or dads or the fucking majority of this country, which lets face it isnt exactly the angry masses but the families and mortgage payers and do weller's in this glorious age of industrialism. these people won't know of an idea like this untill there is angry anti goverment protesters/terrorists being killed in their thousand's by police and military "protection". My idea/proposal is a compromise between ideal's and a sneak route into mainstream culture. Ive been toying with this see/feeling a person's history when they sing openly and honestly, and honestly you won't get it in the charts like you wont get a angry punk in the charts... but, if you stopped this punk/whatever other styled musician to stop his quest of hate and anger and create a commercially acceptable and palatable song with lyrics about anything from his childhood toybox, to his fishing trips with the lads, and the charts liked it and ate it up. Then maybe even though the song was harmless and not obvious the mindset it would convey to the masses would be phenomenal and maybe the change would come, but were talking about finding someone with that much appeal on such a large scale but it could be done, and writing the right words in the right place and that sweet emotions flowing into the minds of the uk and then all over world. I can dream can't I. remember it took US censorship 6 years before they realised the potential little innocent Holden Caulfield had in "catcher in the rye" at subverting the masses of children who were reading the book's in classroom's across the English speaking world and beyond.. undertones people it's all about hidden undertones, eloquence and subtleness will win the war against war, I hope. Anyway, if Ive just wasted a few minutes of your time, good! cos the amount of dribble I read on this site its about time I put something back, Im glad youve read this far but couldnt give a fuck if you agree, cos I know Im right. As for mike whatshisface from duran duran or whateverband you were speaking of earlier I couldnt give two shits wether he lived comfortably to a ripe old age in front of a nice warm fire sipping whittard's fancy hot chocolate or instantly contracted aid's and all over body cancer and spent the rest of his miserable existence in excructiating pain comparable only to month's and month's of a prolonged inevitably fatal childbirth, thats how on the fence I am on that one. ta tar. If you could write that again but not as one long steam of shite that would be appreciated. ta tar!
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Post by Duncan on Feb 19, 2008 20:31:25 GMT
I tried really hard to sell out for a while - It doesn't work. To this day, I haven't found one sure-fire way of earning shit-loads of cash from music. If anyone has an easy 'get rich quick' scheme let me know. Until then I shall continue to record my own peculiar brand of grindcore/surf rock/electronica.
Thing is, when people cry 'SELL OUT!', they assume it's a piece of piss to score a hit record or land a huge advance from a major label - If that were the case everyone would be doing it. In reality, many of the bands who have landed major record deals aren't making much money either. Read Steve Albini's online essay 'The Problem with Music' for more information - it's quite enlightening.
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Post by Duncan on Feb 19, 2008 20:34:31 GMT
Here is the link to Mr Albini's essay. If you don't know who this bloke is, he recorded Nirvana's 'In Utero' and played for some pretty influential bands (Big Black, Rapeman, Shellac etc). His views on the music industry make good reading! - www.negativland.com/albini.html
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Post by mama roach on Feb 19, 2008 20:49:58 GMT
If you could write that again but not as one long steam of shite that would be appreciated. ta tar![/quote]
Just cos' your thick, doesn't mean Im gonna simplify it for you.
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Post by mama roach on Feb 19, 2008 21:08:54 GMT
That's the problem with the world, ediot's, If you don't understand a concept you reject it cos your fecal brain's capacity just can't hold it all in. Thats cool cos were all gonna burn and some will deserve it more than others, we all deserve it, the consellation is that the ediot's will feel hard done by, and the ediot's who think their fighting to change it even more so.
bring forth the rapture baby, yeeeeeeee-ha!!!
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Post by Mingeford on Feb 19, 2008 21:48:28 GMT
That's the problem with the world, ediot's, If you don't understand a concept you reject it cos your fecal brain's capacity just can't hold it all in. Thats cool cos were all gonna burn and some will deserve it more than others, we all deserve it, the consellation is that the ediot's will feel hard done by, and the ediot's who think their fighting to change it even more so. bring forth the rapture baby, yeeeeeeee-ha!!! Consellation? Is that like a constellation? I assume you meant to misspell idiot, if that is what you're spelling because surely no one is that stupid. The board even has a spell checker. Ta tar!
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Post by Mingeford on Feb 19, 2008 21:50:13 GMT
If you could write that again but not as one long steam of shite that would be appreciated. ta tar! Just cos' your thick, doesn't mean Im gonna simplify it for you. [/quote] Just cos my thick what?
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Post by mama roach on Feb 19, 2008 22:38:20 GMT
teehee ;D
I haven't witnessed a reply like that since primary, bet the other kids loved you.
is that what you'd call a comeback or are you just my grammar/spelling fairy?
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Post by Matt on Feb 19, 2008 22:41:04 GMT
Mingeford... Paying attention to petty spelling/typo errors is a shit arguement and your only avoiding Mama Roach's point. Cunt As for the sellout thing. People normally cry that because they are just jealous or totally judging a band when they actually know fuck all.....Like Rancid for example, ok they let Warner take over the distribution of their last full studio album....so fucking what? They had become popular even though it was all largely done DIY beforehand (on their own label, etc etc) Were they on adverts holding cans of Pepsi advertising, are they sponsered by desinger labels? NO. Are they writing music purely for a market audience? I fucking doubt it!
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Post by Duncan on Feb 19, 2008 23:08:45 GMT
Labels are pretty irrelevant in the sell out debate. Even the much derided PWL records worked with Sigue Sigue Sputnick and Judas Priest in tandem with Kylie and Sonia. Mr Bungle were signed to Warners for 2 very 'challenging' albums.
Many of these artists could've made a lot more money working part time at Tesco in the time it took to promote these records (see Albini's essay).
I suppose Kylie's the exception to the rule here, but you get the point.
It must be very de-moralising to be considered a 'sell-out' AND make fuck all money.
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damien6040
Gasses a Lot
IM TELLIN YOU SHES GOT A DICK SON!
Posts: 65
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Post by damien6040 on Feb 20, 2008 10:15:06 GMT
Wow the chaotic nature of these streams are something to be marvelled at.....Is mike peters punk?....is bono a cunt?......is it right to sellout!.... undertones, eloquence and subtleness will win the war against war! and my favourite topic of all.........My dear dear enemy, it would appear to one, that your grammatical skills, have been found to be somewhat inferior to ones own! therefore, the short essay you so eloquently and passionately scribed, will be desregard by the members of this prestigous congregation, and thus your reputation smeared by the very words you poisoned this thread with, so i bid you good day sir........i said good day sir!!!
grammar fairy vs the condesender! ITS THE FIGHT OF THE CENTURY!
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Post by mama roach on Feb 20, 2008 11:56:11 GMT
Get it right Damien it's condescender, there's a C in it, like in cunt!
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damien6040
Gasses a Lot
IM TELLIN YOU SHES GOT A DICK SON!
Posts: 65
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Post by damien6040 on Feb 20, 2008 14:13:00 GMT
of course how silly of me, with a C like, Cunt,
THANKS FOR THAT MAMA!
You might have just saved me a ear bashing from the grammar fairy!
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Post by len fairclough on Feb 20, 2008 15:28:51 GMT
I like swimming with a silent 'P' , and trust me I've done some stuff in swimming pools,thumbs up!!
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Post by petsounds on Feb 21, 2008 15:40:11 GMT
Ok I think it's time for some 'truth'. (1) The Alarm are purely and simply the only band in your area in the last 20 or so years to have any 'true' commercial appeal. Yes that may hurt but it's true. When you look back at old footage of Mike and the lads it's obvious that they were a bit special, they were young lads with big dreams, they had good original material, they had an easily identifiable 'look' (yes it may look cheesy now but it worked for them and fair do's they carried it off) and no-one can argue with their work ethic, even now they still work incredibly hard to keep it going. Were the Alarm a punk band ? yes I'd say so, they self financed their early releases, they created their own thing which admittedly drew heavily on the 'feel and vibe' of the Clash and the 'protest folk poetry' of Dylan which, at that time hadn't really been successfully combined and there was definitely a market for something like that. the kids buying those records were the kids that were too young to get into the '76/77 punk' thing, disco and early electronica were the order of the day, punk rock was old news and whether we like it or not, the kids wanted more than a few swear words and angry gestures backed up by amateur dramatic, badly played and badly recored noise for their money. From Punk came Indie, it was bands like U2, Simple Minds and stuff like Big Country that were being hailed and in amongst that mix The Alarm slotted in very neatly but they made it happen, they worked hard and they sold their thing well.
I'm not a fan of the Alarm, never was but I think it's daft to say 'what have they ever done for us ?' and protest against their punk ethic roots, firstly I just can't believe that any band in your area could expect to see Mike Peters in the audience at their gig, when was the last time any of you actually went out to support one of your own home grown local bands ? oh sure you'll go to the local gig if you're playing or your mates band is playing but realistically when was the last time you actually went as a paying customer ? How many of you can honestly say you actually do support your own local scene, that you are an active supporter ? I'm not talking about the Colwyn Bay punk thing, that's more like a specialized scene, kind of like the vintage car scene or the model aircraft brigade, stamp collectors and so forth, it's all very incestuous and insular in it's being, that's not a bad thing because that's how these things have to operate to exist and survive, they're everywhere across the country, little collections of like minded people keeping their thing alive whether it's punk, British metal or soul music, it's a nostalgia fueled thing that has at it's heart, maybe a one time wigan casino 'name' or as in the north wales punk assembly a few old die hards, probably still holding onto the desire to be adored and respected within his/her own circle, probably still putting out stuff over the web, old stuff remixed, rare 'old' recordings that serve to remind the faithful of his/her heritage and validity to the current scene or whatever but it's all bollocks, it operates outside of the real scene because it has too not because it's the cool 'alternative' or the maligned choice, no, it's make believe, it's not even punk really is it ? I mean 'Smash the New World Order' ? it's all a bit 'wooooh Dan Brown' for me, you can smash a milk bottle or maybe a window but you can't really smash fiction, I suspect there's a 'middle class' social work type parentage thing somewhere amongst them, no lads you're not real but you can survive by preaching to the converted, The Alarm didn't have that luxury, they had to sell it to the average sun reader and to do that they needed decent material and a look that would separate them from all the other bands, oh and they also needed shit loads of luck too, nah, I wouldn't knock the Alarm, not without throwing the same accusations at myself.
So Damien, when was the last time you got off your arse to see a local band that you have absolutely no connection with ? the same goes for all of you really.
(2) The major label v indie/self financed thing, the only thing I have to say is 'Supply and Demand'. If you can honestly say, objectively and without prejudice or bias that you've got something that could possibly sell by the bucket load then eventually a major label will show interest but you'll need more than just a good following of mates to convince any one that you're worth investing in. Signing to a major label is not a sell out, that, again, is just middle class bollocks, it's a very '6th form' flavored opinion, and for those who worry about the 'artistic integrity' of their band being compromised ? nah, it has nothing to do with the subject matter, if it has the potential to sell by the millions then it'll be sold, if it's tuneless crap then you're fairly safe to rant about the same old tired conspiracies or anti whatever statements that have have been the muse of soooo many before that it'll always remain 'underground' and will probably always remain on your own label, that's how it seems to work, obviously there are some great bands out there doing their own thing on their own label but you can bet your life they've all worked really hard to get there and have to continue to work at it just to keep it afloat.
(3)sadly it seems that most of the bands in your area are probably too old or long in the tooth or simply just not good enough to have any realistic national appeal, June Bug, nice but too old, ditto HomeSpun. Ginits and Der Bomber, both great bands, but have they missed the boat ? were they too busy trying to impress the local 'names' instead of developing their own thing ? regrets ? The BBC wanted to spotlight north wales recently but alas,the stuff, it just wasn't 'right', perhaps that's unfair, but that's the way it is.
I will continue to champion the north wales scene but realistically,when was the last time you did ?
not you Steve, if there is ever a nomination for the patron saint of the underground, you'll get my vote and I'll send a big raspberry to all those who don't actively support your efforts but willingly participate in collective moaning sessions about the lack of quality venues and lack of interest and public support, you know who you are, you know the only gigs you go to in your own are your own or those that you are involved in, are you any different to Mike ?
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