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Post by Welsh Disease on Oct 14, 2008 13:26:38 GMT
Wouldn't say strange....more like typical of the parochial, small minded mentality that eats away at North Wales like a cancer.
People here are fucked up!! Apathetic, small minded, frightened of anything new...that's why any bands trying to get a foothold or promoters flogging their arses off, are fighting a losing battle. If it ain't fuckin Karaoke or tribute bands, it's fucked.
Burn North Wales!!!! Smash Apathy!!
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Post by davecox on Oct 14, 2008 13:33:13 GMT
well my personal apoligies go out to rastin as ive yet to make it to any of the zu gigs, as ive explained in person when i saw you last week, been massively skint from movin out / aswell as being very busy with the band (which costs money).
James, although i do think putting in a contraversial statement at the start did grab the attention you wanted, you didnt back it up enough with the substance you claim to have. crud and rastin work hard for fuck all, surely they'd be a prized asset in your suggested new, fresh scene, you could have them tuning the bands guitars in or somethin?!
no seriously, what exactly is it you suggest?
i agree with you on how bands should take innitiative for themselves. something which ive never understood about bands (punk bands are an exception, most of the time) is why no one seems to take on the DIY ethic. Cut out all the bullshit (managers, stageshows, big money/riders, trying to get a number one hit etc etc) and do it for the passion of the music. Have a keen eye for other bands other than yourself (as any real music lover would do) and do people favours, speak to the landlord at your local an ask if you can put on music events once a month or somethin, put on whatever bands you want (any type of music you want to put on, im not trying to promote punk in particular here), an im not talking about massive bands either, theres shit loads on ace bands myspace that are barely heard of, its not hard to find good talented musicians now thanks to the internet. you can create a large network of friends around the country, who fingers crossed will help your band out with a gig in their town. an the more times you play there, the more of a following you'll get. you can build yourself up while at the same time meetin loads of ace people an travelling around (personally a big buzz for me).
soz ive gone off on one... you were pushing the diy ethic i think and we agree on that. but crud and rastin agree with that ethic too and thats exactly what theyve been doing all these years, except for most of the time theyve spent without the motive of promoting their own band, theyre just there cos they enjoy the music, and the elevation of the scene.
hope this all made sense...
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Post by Musty loo on Oct 14, 2008 17:52:20 GMT
NOWHERE in the Uk can a reletively unheard of, unsigned band you play to a crowd of 200 plus people. That could not be further from the truth if you tried. Dont just throw in a comment like that without backing it up...
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Post by Dustymoo on Oct 14, 2008 18:00:16 GMT
Wouldn't say strange....more like typical of the parochial, small minded mentality that eats away at North Wales like a cancer. People here are fucked up!! Apathetic, small minded, frightened of anything new...that's why any bands trying to get a foothold or promoters flogging their arses off, are fighting a losing battle. If it ain't fuckin Karaoke or tribute bands, it's fucked. Burn North Wales!!!! Smash Apathy!! On the other hand, i also agree with that. 99% of the bands are shite. Mainly because all they are interested in is plagiarism, and it's a shame.
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Post by g on Oct 14, 2008 18:59:46 GMT
That could not be further from the truth if you tried. Dont just throw in a comment like that without backing it up... Have you ever been to one of the bigger Barflys, Night & Day in Manchester, a choice of at least 4 venues I can think of in Liverpool, the Warehouse in Chester, Central Station in Wrexham, Clwb Ifor Bach in Cardiff, TJs in Newport, the Buttermarket in Shrewsbury, the Railway Institute in Bangor. There are hundreds of venues in the UK that get 200 people in to see unsigned bands.
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Post by mustyphew on Oct 14, 2008 19:31:22 GMT
Yes Seen and played at some of those 'venues'. But I'm talking about venues that have a core audience of 200-ish every wekk, regardless of who are on. Not those fuckfaced places who make the bands sell thier own tickets. None of the 'venues' you mentioned apply i'm afraid.
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Post by g on Oct 14, 2008 19:38:29 GMT
So you're now saying that there are criteria for these venues?
What are the criteria?
Because everyone of those venues and fucking tons more beside pull 200 people or more for unsigned bands. Not every night. But they do.
Only the Barfly operates the kind of ticketing policy you're talking about (out of the list I gave).
What is it you're trying to say? That Rhyl has / had a hungrier crowd for live music than anywhere else in the whole of the UK? Fucking arse, mate.
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Post by Crusty Poo on Oct 15, 2008 14:55:14 GMT
I still maintain it's the people not the venues..
Rhyl definately does not have a crowd hungry for unsigned bands...however good they are
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Post by Duncan on Oct 15, 2008 15:43:14 GMT
As I moved from North Wales to Kent 3 years ago, maybe I have a slightly different perspective on the whole thing.
There seems to be a general opinion that the North Wales music scene can be a little 'half-arsed' at the best of times. I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree, but having lived on the other side of the fence, there are certainly differences in other parts of the country.
First off, whilst Dave's DIY ethic is very admirable, it does highlight a major problem in the area. Without people such as Crud and Rastin (and also Dave Cox it would seem), very little would happen. I would also argue that Lantern, despite all the criticism they get, have done a lot for the music scene in Colwyn Bay over the years. See also Ectogram's frequent alternative/experimental nights at the Vic in menai Bridge. I also believe that John Reynolds (vocalist for 'Entity') has made some bold moves in promoting the metal scene in Wrexham.
These people give up a lot of time and money to ensure that the North Wales music scene avoids being dull and uninspiring. Very often, they do it for no financial reward. The main incentive is that they believe so heavily in the music they promote.
However it is still built on a DIY ethic and this is what makes people see it as 'half-arsed' (somewhat unfairly). Whilst the idea of managers, promotion and business can seem like 'selling out', I seem to recall that very few people in North Wales actually do any managing, media promotion or well-concieved business plans connected with music. I could count the major players on one hand and almost all of them are interested in music that gets 'mainstream' airplay or coverage.
Sadly, that usually means S4C, Champion FM and...erm... the North Wales Chronicle? In other words - mainly bland music that has more to do with a frustrating langauge policy than making good music. When I said the scene needed a budding Tony Wilson, I really meant it. I'd love to see someone with a serious interest in business and promotion march in and help the situation - get all those stuffy media people out of so-called 'trendy youth television/radio' and into promoting Welsh culture - that is what they seem to do best.
The situation in Kent is almost totally the reverse. Many of the bands down here have official management and there is a high level of thought going into the business side of things. Unfortunately, it seems to have killed off a lot of the DIY ethic that makes music exciting in the first place (only bands who guarantee a big audience are able to make frequent live performnaces).
I am still unsure whether anywhere in the UK has a perfect music scene, but if anyone undervalues the North Walians who give their time and money for little in return, they have made a grave error.
I've been quite harsh on the scene over the years, but having travelled a lot, I realise the music scene in North Wales is one of the most colourful you will find in the UK, even if the rest of the world doesn't give a shit. Underestimate it at your peril.
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Post by Jimmy on Oct 15, 2008 15:50:58 GMT
James doesn't raise any valid points because his argument is half arsed just like the bands he is attempting to criticise.
As for the 200+ crowds thing, ive seen crowds of 200 in Central Station but i've also seen crowds of 10. The same applies in Rhyl, Bar Blu started with 10 people and ended with 10 people but inbetween you got maybe 1 or 2 hundred on a good week. As someone said above, its more about the crowd.
During the "heyday" of places like Blu and to an extent Celebrities it was more about the night out and it felt like more of a "scene" then it does now. Unfortunately no one has taken up the baton of the bands that were around a few years ago and helped create a new scene. The constant uncertainty over venues hasn't helped either. So in summary, Steve and Neil are not to blame, the lack of quality venues, general apathy and a lack of quality bands is too blame.
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dusty
Wet Behind The Ears
Posts: 43
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Post by dusty on Oct 15, 2008 17:53:54 GMT
James doesn't raise any valid points because his argument is half arsed just like the bands he is attempting to criticise. As for the 200+ crowds thing, ive seen crowds of 200 in Central Station but i've also seen crowds of 10. The same applies in Rhyl, Bar Blu started with 10 people and ended with 10 people but inbetween you got maybe 1 or 2 hundred on a good week. As someone said above, its more about the crowd. During the "heyday" of places like Blu and to an extent Celebrities it was more about the night out and it felt like more of a "scene" then it does now. Unfortunately no one has taken up the baton of the bands that were around a few years ago and helped create a new scene. The constant uncertainty over venues hasn't helped either. So in summary, Steve and Neil are not to blame, the lack of quality venues, general apathy and a lack of quality bands is too blame. Spot on. I think the general quality of bands has been dipping for the best part of ten years now. Mind, it's happening on a national level too.
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Post by chump on Oct 15, 2008 18:18:06 GMT
....on a lighter note. The Rackatears have split up. We just need Gintis to pack in their inane, mundane pap, and the Rhyl scene will be a lot better for it.
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Post by Dave Gintis on Oct 15, 2008 18:51:57 GMT
James doesn't raise any valid points because his argument is half arsed just like the bands he is attempting to criticise. As for the 200+ crowds thing, ive seen crowds of 200 in Central Station but i've also seen crowds of 10. The same applies in Rhyl, Bar Blu started with 10 people and ended with 10 people but inbetween you got maybe 1 or 2 hundred on a good week. As someone said above, its more about the crowd. During the "heyday" of places like Blu and to an extent Celebrities it was more about the night out and it felt like more of a "scene" then it does now. Unfortunately no one has taken up the baton of the bands that were around a few years ago and helped create a new scene. The constant uncertainty over venues hasn't helped either. So in summary, Steve and Neil are not to blame, the lack of quality venues, general apathy and a lack of quality bands is too blame. Spot on. I think the general quality of bands has been dipping for the best part of ten years now. Mind, it's happening on a national level too. All the bands that played Blu also attended most of the time, which from my limited experience of Zubar and Rain doesnt appear to happen now. Thats the biggest problem. 5 people out of 5 bands each with 1 or 2 friends is an instant crowd.
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Post by Dave Gintis on Oct 15, 2008 18:53:00 GMT
....on a lighter note. The Rackatears have split up. We just need Gintis to pack in their inane, mundane pap, and the Rhyl scene will be a lot better for it. Don't recall playing on or being part of the "Rhyl scene" for a couple of years now. Good to see you're thinking of us though.
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Post by Chump on Oct 16, 2008 18:31:49 GMT
Thats a shame, for you lot, cos it's all ya good for. It's only crud that think you are any good.
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