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Post by davecox on Jul 29, 2008 12:46:15 GMT
im not gonna judge you for your opinion thats upto you. And I want this to be completely open to debate (unlike organised religion/mainstream coverage of 911 'conspiracy theories' etc), i think critical thinking is vital, yes please question me, but dont forget to question everything else aswell. what do 'conspiracy theorists' (in Law a conspiracy is an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act, so the official version of events is still just a conspiracy theory, to call a certain side of this argument conspiracy theorists is unbalanced and unfair) get from claiming it was an inside job? we are ridiculed, blacklisted, ignored and libeled. there's no other motive for saying the things we say, no money in it (all films of this subject are available for free on the internet), no chance for rising popularity (other than people who feel the same but thats just shared beliefs), we actively encourage people to research for themselves so we are not trying to manipulate people for our use, as we want people to discover for themselves. and speaking for myself; i just see all this as urgent, I dont believe the ongoing war is justified, and i believe the soldiers were misled to fight for the gains of a few extremely rich people. what is in it for criminal elements of western governments to carry out such an attack (or allow it to happen, i dont for one second say i have all the answers)? 1) the excuse to invade any country they want (more oil, money through arms trades, influx of drugs to sell to make alot more money aswell as dumbing down populations and strategic positioning for future conquests) 2) the excuse to highten police powers / big brother state / population control in general 3) the excuse to build 800 fema camps accross the usa (i.e youtube.com/watch?v=8AEw2u-fBZk )/ allow british mp's to openly talk about using 'army detention camps' on british citizens. 4) the excuse to usher in id cards, something they've been trying to do for years but we've always rejected. the last person to use id cards?.... adolf! an whats next after that? implanted microchips (research it for yourself, they've been talking about chipping criminals, met police, peodo's, plus theyve already started chipping people in mexico/usa on a voluntary basis (how long for?) I think it is in our interest to question this war on terror, instead of just going along with it.
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Post by Matt on Jul 29, 2008 15:05:03 GMT
There's a website, set-up by a bunch of people that are almost as pedantic as the conspiracy theorists. Just click the link below to see the flip side of the argument. It's equally well researched - www.debunking911.comOr maybe don't. There's more important things in life. Most of these debunking books/sites are easily debunked. Thats very important to note. "there's more important things in life" .... seriously, you think 9/11 truth doesnt effect you?!
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Mr JuZ Splappy Spaz
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Post by Mr JuZ Splappy Spaz on Jul 29, 2008 17:15:07 GMT
It is confidence boosting to know that this ginger minger can make us all feel just a little bit more cleverer than we thought. read cant read to good that lad read splappy spaz wtf?
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Post by Matt on Jul 29, 2008 18:11:14 GMT
Im kinda bored of people debating and not actually displaying an understanding of what you have said in previous posts, therefore leading me to repeat myself over and over until i've ran into a brick wall so many times i've gone through the fucker Some debators here are almost use a politicians tatic of answering the questions they want to answer. Adios p.s. until next time
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Post by davecox on Jul 30, 2008 12:00:35 GMT
you dont just click to something this complex, its a process of understanding, ofcourse your right to question the idea that it was an inside job, for you to just accept what we say as truth is just stupid, an i appreciate you being sceptical. If only we'd tackled 911 as it happened with the same scepticism, we would've noticed all the live reporting on the day of people saying they heard loud explosions and bombs going off inside the buildings (luckily, its all there on youtube). i do think we can talk about this maturely without gettin pissed off with each other. were all adults here! i'd like to make a point about what you said here... "I do not accept that any organisation is capable of the level of secrecy the US government is supposedly maintaining. For them to pull off an inside job, they would have to be in absolute control of literally tens of thousands of people, some of whom work in very lowly positions and have nothing to lose through speaking out and everything to gain in whistle blowing." Yes, it is extremely unrealistic to think they could have that many people working with them on such a nasty project. But if you think of the possibilities, if they just manipulate their staff.... NORAD (american air defense) was conducting terror excercise drills that morning, involving planes being hijacked and flown into the WTC and Pentagon. When fighter jets were scrambled there was a massive delay in all the confusion as they didnt know if it was 'real world or excercise'. So loads of people were involved but didnt realise at the time, the 'conspiracy' was compartmentalised, the deeper into it you get the more info you discover and the more blatant it becomes. Also, loads an loads of people have blown the whistle but are being ignored by the corporate owned media (which is why there are now so many grass roots movements using the internet to express themselves freely, groups like Pilots for 911 truth).
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Post by Matt on Jul 30, 2008 20:22:52 GMT
I hate repeating myself again, cus i've already talked about all this in previous posts on this thread, but it was either ignored, or Duncan suddenly decided to discuss the points he has replied too.
It would be very easy to carry out an attack of such nature for false flag purposes for criminal elements within government. They do have past experience on smaller scales to put on their CV! To know it was going to happen and help it on its way...even easier. Esp, like Dave added when you have a drill for a similar event happening on the same day. The same happened on 7/7.
I'd like to continue the theme of tangent surfing since we've gone from one thing to another so quickly (initial post about NWO, wtc building 7, Afganistan's liberation, a rather important section about reading and paying attention and now back to 9/11 in general), and bring up "the greatest miltary hack of all time" and the media's ignoring of what the hacker actually says he discovered whilst looking for info on UFO's. The US allegedly (and most probably since they alledgedly (and most likely) had the fucking Stealth Bomber 16 years before public were made aware!) having Anti-gravity Propulsion technology?! Ooooo i've done it now!
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Wet Behind The Ears
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Post by 0 on Jul 30, 2008 23:38:42 GMT
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Post by davecox on Jul 31, 2008 11:11:58 GMT
"I do not accept that any organisation is capable of the level of secrecy the US government is supposedly maintaining." and then... "It would be easy for them to do so. But why bother?" are we starting to get through to ya? hehe anyway the reasons why they would bother are very obvious, we dont need any 'conspiracy theory' to see why they are doing all this, just take a look around. "9/11 has been more effective in boosting general mistrust of the Bush administration" remember on the day when he climbed on the roof of a car with a megaphone an everyone was cheering him an shouting usa etc etc an he said "i hear ya, america hear's ya, the people that did this are gonna hear ya"... "America has often used truly pathetic reasons for invading countries (communism, suspected WMDs) so it stands to reason they didn't need an inside job to justify the war in Iraq." yes you're right, but this war is different, the enemy can be anyone, in bush's own words it will last '100 years', anyone from any country can be a terrorist, it gives them the reasoning to go whereever they want (neocons have openly said the third world war is a psychological war, carried on since WW2, again without alot of media coverage, but its all there if you look it up). "They were completely unprepared." Thats why Buzzy Crongard (CIA) and other high ranking officials placed suspiciously high 'put options' (risky inside trading) on American Airlines, and the owner of the buildings put record insurance policies on the buildings. it just seems abit too obvious when you consider all of this, know what i mean?
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Wet Behind The Ears
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Post by 0 on Jul 31, 2008 15:32:51 GMT
Well for my 2 cents I think that the Islamic radicals are behind the conspiracy theories. What better way to turn a people against their government than instill a sense of doubt. OK I'm talking bollocks but some of what I've read/heard from both sides of the argument isn't far from bollocks either. I'm sure we will all be dead and gone when the truth finally surfaces by which time it will be different again.
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Post by markwj on Jul 31, 2008 16:23:52 GMT
I recommend "conspiracy theories" by Robin Ramsey, available from AK Press. It's a very objective look at how this much used and abused term has developed, and one of it's key points is the "no smoke without fire" aspect. While many of the Theories are disparaged through lack of evidence despite extensive research (e.g. JFK) the fact the there have been genuiine conspiracies, especially from the US Government (CIA LSD distribution, FBI "flying saucer" misinformation, all the central/south american countries they've fucked over), has created a climate where people don't trust and see them everywhere. and of course, some times, somewheres, they are thereindeed.
lyric from forthcoming finite death ep - "cease to look, and you will find, you're further from the truth"
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Post by Duncan on Aug 1, 2008 11:02:29 GMT
Mark - the calm voice of reason in an ocean of mad ranting (myself included).
When I think about it there is a very real conspiracy with the Bush administration that everyone agrees on - there were no weapons of mass destruction. It's widely acknowledged by all sides and arguably a much nastier affair than 9/11. After all, a lot more people have died as a result.
A forthcoming finite death ep. Nice plug there - be sure to let us all know when it's coming out.
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Post by markwj on Aug 1, 2008 11:13:11 GMT
this ep has been coming so long i'm beginning to think it's tantric!
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Post by Duncan on Aug 1, 2008 19:47:33 GMT
Would there be a Sting influence on the new stuff then? (I somehow doubt it!) It's been a long time coming, but I'm aniticipating it a lot more than Chinese Democracy.
Put me down for a copy.
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Post by davecox on Aug 5, 2008 11:04:07 GMT
"It is extremely likely that Islamic radicals were behind 9/11. Much more likely than the Bush administration and the end result almost entirely suggests they were behind it." I've provided large chunks of evidence to back up my claims, can you do the same please? I mean, for example Bin Laden isnt even wanted for the 911 attacks (look on the official fbi wanted list, and what they want him for, 911 isnt mentioned!). Theyre after the world's oil resources (middle east), china and russia are industrialised so once america has control of the oil, china and russia are in the palm of their hands. discuss!
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Post by Matt on Aug 5, 2008 18:14:48 GMT
yer very good fuckin point.
debators are provided with alot of solid evidence, and they still worm around it trying to say its not real evidence, when its the kinda of evidence, that, in a court of law, WOULD put someone away for sure.
They winge about evidence but rarely provide any solid evidence for their arguement, using stances as "it must be true its here on the government's enquiry said so"
So yes, please back up your claims as you so proudley request us to do
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