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Post by JuZbbbP on Nov 13, 2009 1:36:33 GMT
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Post by Duncan on Nov 13, 2009 11:22:58 GMT
I'd love to agree with you Juz, I really would. If anyone can confirm that they are earning a shed load of cash from playing live contribute to this thread now!
Sadly I fear the situation may still be as follows -
'Oh are you that funny band? Oh good - Set up by the bogs would you? Money? HARGH! HARGH! HARGH! For THAT?!!! You're having a laugh aren't you?!!! Please accept 4 beer tokens'
I don't doubt that some promoters pay, but an awful lot still don't.
Tell me it isn't so. PLEASE.
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Post by adamwalton on Nov 13, 2009 18:09:35 GMT
Well, we pay [Telfords, that is.]
The money has usually gone well before the promoter gets any of it to divvy round.
Most promoters I know subsidise the events they put on and get bollocks all financial help / support from the venue they promote in.
It's interesting that bands tend to be at the bottom of the list of priorities when it comes to paying expenses for a night: room hire, PA & engineer hire, bar staff and security... once they're all cleared, the band might get enough for a ginsters pasty and a bottle of past-its-sell-by-date pale ale.
Weird set of priorities.
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Post by Duncan on Nov 17, 2009 11:20:55 GMT
I've tried my hand at promoting a few times.
Every time I've done it, I made sure the bands got paid. Sometimes it may have been a small £40 per person but in such cases I booked soloists - £40 to one person is a lot more than £40 between 5. I knew there would not be enough punters to merit a full band, so I didn't book one. It just depends how you organise it.
All too often there is a showcase with a promoter, 4 bands, a DJ and a soundman. It's not easy to pay all those people unless you've got at least 300 people turning up.
This is not to say that people should play purely for money. Christ knows I would have packed it in long ago if I operated on that basis!
I suppose it's just about thinking ahead. I would hate to be the promoter at the Hope & Anchor in London. Paying the bands there would be near impossible. You can barely fit 100 people in the room. Coupled with a showcase night that's a pretty bleak outlook financially.
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Post by rocker on Nov 17, 2009 12:48:42 GMT
I.M.H.O You have to find the right balance between playing paid gigs and ones that don't. There are other means and ways of balancing things out if you are arranging coaches of fans etc to come to the gigs, depending on the figures really !! I don't mind playing decent gigs for no LOSSES, it's when your paying to play it gets dis-heartening. It gives us more incentive so sell cd's and spread the word whilst we're there, which in turn sets the wheels turning in our favour again !! over the years we're built up a list of paying venues, be it pubs etc, that gladly take us back time after time and we get paid happily at the end of every night. Of course we try to not play the same venues month after month, spread em about a bit, which is not always possible granted, but it's the only way to do it really, especially nowadays !! It depends on what you're trying to acheive with the whole thing. Our eye is on the bigger picture and if you have the confidence in your ability and you invest the money wisely, it's all cool It's a shame but the whole scene is messed up, but that's the music industry for ya. like it or lump it !!! So many talented artists out there not getting a fair crack of the whip, you have to make yer own luck in this game and just get on with it. Whatever will be wil be !!
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Post by Duncan on Nov 17, 2009 23:22:14 GMT
...the whole scene is messed up, but that's the music industry for ya. like it or lump it !!! So many talented artists out there not getting a fair crack of the whip, you have to make yer own luck in this game and just get on with it. Whatever will be wil be !! I have always found it quite sad that musicians have to 'lump it'. If you work for anyone else and you don't get paid there is serious trouble. Apparently it's alright to rip musicians off. They are second class citizens. At some point this WILL change.
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sona
Gob Shite
Posts: 223
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Post by sona on Nov 18, 2009 20:04:07 GMT
I agree Duncan. It reall is annoying how often we as musicians get ripped off. If you were working for below minimum wage (yet alone for free!!) in any other job, you'd have a case with Citizens Advice.
However, hands up who's filled in their tax return this year for earnings made through playing live music...
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Post by Duncan on Nov 18, 2009 23:00:29 GMT
I agree Duncan. It reall is annoying how often we as musicians get ripped off. If you were working for below minimum wage (yet alone for free!!) in any other job, you'd have a case with Citizens Advice. However, hands up who's filled in their tax return this year for earnings made through playing live music... My hand is in the air. I do that every year! Thing is - I don't earn enough from self employment to qualify for paying tax. Most of the bands here would be in the same boat, but I get the feeling many of them find registering too complex/boring or are worried about losing job seekers income or disability allowance. This year I made more from employment as a music lecturer than I did from playing live, selling CDs or freelance guitar tuition so I didn't pay any tax for my self employed work. I seem to remember John from Kobe ran a pretty tight ship a few years back. He handled his paperwork very effectively. There are those who say making it in the music industry is as much about being an organised businessman as being a good musician. I've always been far too disorganised to know whether this is true, but I can get my head round tax returns. I don't know how Global Parasite function, but I would imagine they have a pretty good head for business from some of the large-scale events and tours they have organised. That takes a lot of planning.
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Post by davecox on Nov 20, 2009 10:42:09 GMT
"I don't know how Global Parasite function, but I would imagine they have a pretty good head for business from some of the large-scale events and tours they have organised. That takes a lot of planning. "
well, were not economincally ambitious for a start. we organise gigs purely for wanted to see the bands we put on in our area, something which i guess a lot of people dont seem to understand. we do work hard but money isnt as important as air, punks dont have money so i wouldnt wanna charge more than i need to. i want people to turn up, that is all, i dont want a fuckin mortgage from it. weve never made any money from promoting. For example, the dirty weekend 2008 (our biggest event so far, without a doubt) we actually lost £100. Not a big deal though considering the total costs for the weekend hit 4 grand, we could've lost alot more than £100 if for example, it had pissed it down all weekend an 30 less people hadnt come!
We've never been paid anything special with the band either, infact 9 times out of the 10 the petrol money for gigs has come out of our own pockets (... matt's pocket most of the time). We just about managed to get to each gig of the tour in august.
weve been stitched up in the past for benefit fraud, an its a fuckin insult cos were all skint as fuck, this is the only true passion we have, we do it for fuck all, an when people accuse us of bein loaded, takin the piss, its just abit baffling really.
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Post by Duncan on Nov 20, 2009 13:40:43 GMT
"I don't know how Global Parasite function, but I would imagine they have a pretty good head for business from some of the large-scale events and tours they have organised. That takes a lot of planning. " well, were not economincally ambitious for a start. we organise gigs purely for wanted to see the bands we put on in our area, something which i guess a lot of people dont seem to understand. we do work hard but money isnt as important as air, punks dont have money so i wouldnt wanna charge more than i need to. i want people to turn up, that is all, i dont want a fuckin mortgage from it. weve never made any money from promoting. For example, the dirty weekend 2008 (our biggest event so far, without a doubt) we actually lost £100. Not a big deal though considering the total costs for the weekend hit 4 grand, we could've lost alot more than £100 if for example, it had pissed it down all weekend an 30 less people hadnt come! We've never been paid anything special with the band either, infact 9 times out of the 10 the petrol money for gigs has come out of our own pockets (... matt's pocket most of the time). We just about managed to get to each gig of the tour in august. weve been stitched up in the past for benefit fraud, an its a fuckin insult cos were all skint as fuck, this is the only true passion we have, we do it for fuck all, an when people accuse us of bein loaded, takin the piss, its just abit baffling really. Just to clarify Dave, I was referring to GB's organisational skills, rather than suggesting they make shed-loads of cash.
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Post by juzbbbP on Nov 20, 2009 16:41:11 GMT
Their must be a list of promoters out there for all genres, which could succesfully build a tour through the country in the chosen scene. I am currently emailing my peers to find out various venues that loves dem hip hops.
For close to 10 years now Ive been trying to build a product that cannot be ignored, for several years I have hit dead ends. At the moment my jobless days are spent scouring the net for contemporary rap, and I must say its in a shoddy state of affairs internationally. The last 12 months with the help of a dvr I have managed to touch on something which through all my net searching cannot find anything to par. I have studied what makes my peers succesfull and taken note.
I think that if you have a product that cant be denied then a lot more promoters and venues will open up, a lot of the underground hip hop scene is diy like daves done with the punk, and if they want you theyll get you.
At the moment I have 800 tracks freestyled, 500 of em are full songs with catchy hooks, which I listen to daily as I am my truest most dedicated fan, sad I know. I feel like Im at a cross roads, and would be happy wether the music was released or kept to myself. Theres a lot of humourous tracks and alot of socially aware tracks but I cant help but feel releasing them would be purely ego driven, this is personal and doesnt speak for any other artist or band.
This post doesnt mean a lot, but Im toying with the idea of being the greatest rapper never known. Conceited, yes, but the ability to freestyle something straightout in 5 minutes keeps the essence of what is truely being said and anything I do past that I feel to be contrived.
Yes, it may seem that I have a large ego, but I have scripted lyrics every day for 13 years now, this has taken me through literature, philosophy, politics, world events even studying foreign economies to find out the true meaning of this ball of madness and through it I have manage (I feel) to write songs to comfort even the most hated person in their darkest hour, and generalise the worlds problems without losing clarity.
Now all I have to do is decide wether t start releasing them or just keep it to myself, the rap industry is a fickle business and fear of losing the fun and solace that I find in writing lyrics daily due to being seen as a peer and not the nobody I am scares me to silence.
blah blah blah ego shit, but biggup to any band that can live quite comfortably on what they do, its the hardest industry to work in, but if you do it for yourself its also the most rewarding.
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Post by burnt on Nov 21, 2009 12:39:59 GMT
"I don't know how Global Parasite function, but I would imagine they have a pretty good head for business from some of the large-scale events and tours they have organised. That takes a lot of planning. " well, were not economincally ambitious for a start. we organise gigs purely for wanted to see the bands we put on in our area, something which i guess a lot of people dont seem to understand. we do work hard but money isnt as important as air, punks dont have money so i wouldnt wanna charge more than i need to. i want people to turn up, that is all, i dont want a fuckin mortgage from it. weve never made any money from promoting. For example, the dirty weekend 2008 (our biggest event so far, without a doubt) we actually lost £100. Not a big deal though considering the total costs for the weekend hit 4 grand, we could've lost alot more than £100 if for example, it had pissed it down all weekend an 30 less people hadnt come! We've never been paid anything special with the band either, infact 9 times out of the 10 the petrol money for gigs has come out of our own pockets (... matt's pocket most of the time). We just about managed to get to each gig of the tour in august. weve been stitched up in the past for benefit fraud, an its a fuckin insult cos were all skint as fuck, this is the only true passion we have, we do it for fuck all, an when people accuse us of bein loaded, takin the piss, its just abit baffling really. What's an insult is this People like me are working are arses off so that you benefit scroungers can spend your money on drugs and sit at home on your lazy fat arses writing shit punk songs that have been written a million times before. fucking unreal May I suggest getting of your arse and getting a job? Maybe then you will be able to afford to get to gigs.
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Post by tomleucine on Nov 22, 2009 12:40:04 GMT
I don't think I've ever invested more money in anything except our band so then not getting paid a single dime for gigs is hard to swallow sometimes!
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Post by Matt on Nov 22, 2009 21:04:18 GMT
"I don't know how Global Parasite function, but I would imagine they have a pretty good head for business from some of the large-scale events and tours they have organised. That takes a lot of planning. " well, were not economincally ambitious for a start. we organise gigs purely for wanted to see the bands we put on in our area, something which i guess a lot of people dont seem to understand. we do work hard but money isnt as important as air, punks dont have money so i wouldnt wanna charge more than i need to. i want people to turn up, that is all, i dont want a fuckin mortgage from it. weve never made any money from promoting. For example, the dirty weekend 2008 (our biggest event so far, without a doubt) we actually lost £100. Not a big deal though considering the total costs for the weekend hit 4 grand, we could've lost alot more than £100 if for example, it had pissed it down all weekend an 30 less people hadnt come! We've never been paid anything special with the band either, infact 9 times out of the 10 the petrol money for gigs has come out of our own pockets (... matt's pocket most of the time). We just about managed to get to each gig of the tour in august. weve been stitched up in the past for benefit fraud, an its a fuckin insult cos were all skint as fuck, this is the only true passion we have, we do it for fuck all, an when people accuse us of bein loaded, takin the piss, its just abit baffling really. What's an insult is this People like me are working are arses off so that you benefit scroungers can spend your money on drugs and sit at home on your lazy fat arses writing shit punk songs that have been written a million times before. fucking unreal May I suggest getting of your arse and getting a job? Maybe then you will be able to afford to get to gigs. Another wrong assumption! I work to pay for most of the things that need paying for, our online sales (dont amount to much) just get recycled into buying more merch. No money from benefits really contributes to the functioning of this band at all! So no you assumption making cunt your wrong. Were not taking any label help with our album, were doing it fully DIY, which means working my ass off to pay for it. The label will distro it though. Another wrong assumption with us sitting at home "scrounging", Im rarely at home and i stopped taking drugs a long time ago. And I truely believe we are NOT writing punk songs that have been said before because we're writing about things that are a little different to what is assumed within our genre. But then, as you appear to know nothing about us and don't know any of our songs (as the albums not out yet) you wouldn't know that, so I'll let you off that one No business head is needed. When im booking tours no business comes into any of it! It's DIY punk. You ask for petrol money and enough for food and a place to crash. You get looked after, it's the way it works and we love it that way. Why the hell did I explain myself (oursleves) to a scared anonymous poster? I like to bite, im a fucking rotweiler
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Post by juzzy on Nov 23, 2009 2:37:36 GMT
lol cum off it matt the last thing i think of u as is a rotty, a confused poodle with a leg humping tendency maybe, big scarey teeth bearing doggy isnt the role you play in that boy band of yours is it.
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