TerryHomespun
Wet Behind The Ears
"Maybe yes, Maybe no,...Maybe go Fuck Yourself"
Posts: 27
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Post by TerryHomespun on May 3, 2008 15:15:26 GMT
yeah the derbomer lad put it well but i get too angry, (though i could articulate, I don't) anyway my point has been made, and i hold no grudge to anyone in here for the right reasons, but as we see most people in bands at the moment are doing the same thing (all of what carlos said is EXACTLY what we are, and have been doing for the last year. except i had to build my own studio and with the band :write ,record,produce,mix,master and do the artwork to our debut album. and I have been producing other bands with no cash to help the scene! not for thanks but because we have been held back by cash flow and we are trying to help other people that are working towards something. we could write a book on industry corruption and the "tour buy-ins" ie give us 20,000 and you got the support slot! for fuck sake we got turned down by Vinyl Japan because we wouldnt wear leather pants and eye liner or tinfoil suits! (true) its called integrity. we are not bitter and didnt come on here bragging when we were asked to play for EMI in London, or when we supported the dammed. so you see my point .... we are doing our own thing and will never come here just to start petty rows, but I make no apologies for my past few posts, I do love the way though, that the most some people have done is come and retort with "oh look at the miss use of the English language in that post" That is funny! and No this isnt Xbox live i wasn't making big threats i could'nt keep , I was just confronting people i know live near me (no one person in particular) I don't think bands should all just "get along" that'd be shit! and if any band is prepared to say some other band are better than them they are not playing in the right band. thats the point of being in a band: when no-one is making the music YOU like...YOU go and make it! thats what we are doing,... occasionaly sellin out for some radio play haha.... but thats what its about! so hate us , love us, declare YOUR BAND the best of all! its the way of the world! and to all the people who want to "all just get along" ...its not gonna happen the world does'nt work like that!!! just have a bit of mutual respect!
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Post by iwan on May 3, 2008 17:37:42 GMT
"oh look at the miss use of the English language in that post"
Terry,I think you'll find it's misuse
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Post by neilcrud on May 5, 2008 20:41:11 GMT
My God..! Whatever happened to rock'n'roll... Whatever happened to bands trashing venues? Whatever happened to bands being the most big headed twats in town and not giving a fuck? Whatever happened to bands spraying their name on every wall in every town? Whatever happened to bands getting banned from places simply because of their reputation? Whatever happened to punk rock attitudes? Whatever happened to bands knocking seven bells of out of their own members on stage? Whatever happened to blatant publicity stunts? Whatever happened to bands gatecrashing gigs, radio stations, newspaper offices? Whatever happened to bands trashing other bands gear? Someone posted earlier about there being hundreds of bands in hundreds of towns all dreaming of being the next big thing... The quality of music is as diverse as it is incredible from all corners of the globe - its a saturated high standard market and that market is changing fast... Bands need to stand out - record sales don't really count anymore cos everyone gets their music for free... Bands who want to be something can either hang around their myspace pages and hope some limp dick in London picks up on it, or they start rattling a few cages... I'm not saying the controversial route is the answer or the only way, but a look in the bin outside the Spar will tell you that there's thousands of no hopers who live their lives on the 'what if the next scratch card was the jackpot' and there's people who drive past them working hard for their money.. It's the same thing for bands.... I've just been updating the link2wales stuff and added a Swansea punk band called Page 3 www.link2wales.co.uk/South/P.htm
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Post by Matt on May 5, 2008 22:53:44 GMT
novelty kills, progression keeps it alive
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Post by Duncan on May 6, 2008 9:10:36 GMT
I think Neil's post is a good one.
Music has, to a certain extent, been devalued and over-saturated by wannabes - It doesn't matter where you're from.
There are a few core values remaining. You can't reproduce the wonderful sounds of pro-tools in a live setting, so a good live band will always be appreciated. With so many clones out there on myspace, the need to have a 'unique sound' is more important than ever - it's one of the few remaining things that will get you noticed. I don't think we can blame the bands of North Wales for the lack of success. A lot of them seem to work pretty hard. If there weren't 6,000,000,000,000 other bands working equally hard, maybe they would have risen to the top by now.
As for 'the controversial route' - I agree that it grabs headlines and gets attention, but so much stuff has already been done. When GG Alin has already walked around on stage with a live bomb strapped to his chest, where do you go from there? (and that was 20 years ago!). Short of actually killing yourself on stage, it would seem that even controversy is becoming stale.
Add this to the list of other considerations -
1) Major record labels are in SERIOUS financial bother with internet sales becoming more dominant.
2) Rock stars are dropping their labels in favour of self-financed indie backing - a trend started by Mick Hucknall. This loathsome character is now an influential figure.
3) The PRS/MCPS are failing to come down on areas of music that flaunt legal procedure (downloads etc). It's too big a problem to tackle and a lot less people are actually buying music these days.
4) Music venues are under stricter control owing to government policies on 'anti-social behaviour'. We've got monitors for volume levels, rules on how many band members you can have and heavy restrictions on licensing. PRS even investigate bands who play cover versions down here in Kent - we are expected to pay a fee.
5) Simon Cowell has not been assasinated yet.
Maybe the concept of 'commercial music' is truly dead. That'll please MWJ I'm sure!
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Post by markwj on May 6, 2008 12:06:30 GMT
errr...maybe?
i couldn't give a fuck about most music really. i have a massive filter (and cock, by the way) that continually operates for stuff that i can't be bothered wasting my ear-time with. i have very narrow tastes in "music" (fuck choons) that can be summed up as "what i like". as for the industry it's just another shit system like life in general. how far you chose to engage with, or disengage from, it is entirely down to the individual. I do believe that whatever anyone does in music will ultimately be positive for their lives, even if only in memories. why the fuck that should be defined in cash terms is a fucking mystery to me.
bargoed mine-off gang made me laugh today
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TerryHomespun
Wet Behind The Ears
"Maybe yes, Maybe no,...Maybe go Fuck Yourself"
Posts: 27
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Post by TerryHomespun on May 6, 2008 15:29:16 GMT
"Terry,I think you'll find it's misuse" Touche Crud is right and we have done all of the above and have the bans, fines, and section 5's to prove it. it is all about gigging now and there is NO cash in it. so as we are seeing , only middle class junkies are making it!? i hate all this download shit.... i download a thousand files a week in mp3's avis, (porn mostly) haha and music recording software, ironic! whats helped my band is killing all bands! I WANT CD'S ... I LOVE THEM... mp3s dont seem real. i think if real music formats (you can hold and look at) come back things might get better. where are all the fucking record shops? pinhead,kavern,hmv? its bullshit and now its all a throw away industry! the net should be for watching gypsy bare knuckle fights and porn and thats it! we have gotta tour this year and sell our albums and merch to fund it, and i bet we dont sell a thing through itunes!!! who the fuck goes and buys a song on mp3??? people just torrent it or limewire it. even my cousin said this in MCR when i asked if he had heard our album, he fucking bootlegged us , it was quicker and free. i fear crud maybe the last person to have made cash off a record round here!
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0
Wet Behind The Ears
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Post by 0 on May 6, 2008 17:27:37 GMT
Ok here I go setting myself up to be called a twat, fat twat, bald dick or something else totally unoriginal by opening my mouth and telling it like it is.
Fact: I make a living out of the music business Fact: I've survived over 30 years in this business Fact: Some people actually come to me for advice
The long and the short of it is the majority of the bands out there (and I'm not just saying in n.Wales but everywhere) shouldn't have left their practice space yet. There are too many bands plying their wares on the gig circuit that venue owners can do as they bloody well please when it comes to offering bands a decent deal for a nights work. And don't get me started on the "punk attitude" of 'it's about doing as many gigs as possible, whether your paid or not' -- bollox -- why do you think punk started. Kids were on the dole, needed cash and venues were paying £10 a gig (remember this is 1976/7 when £10 was more than a weeks wages for most people) ~If you have a single to show a venue, you got £25!! Think what that is worth in todays money, perhaps £100 minimum per gig. But it was short lived of course because once people saw how easy it was to get gigs every Tom Dick and Harry picked up an instrument and formed a band. The market got flooded, venues started saying no to paying band and the bring a crowd lark began to creep in.
How many time have bands, even on this board, announced an out of town gig and then told of a coach that is going to that gig. Why for fuck sake do you want to travel across country to play in some shit hole in front of the same crowd you play to at home? Are you really into getting your mates to pay for your night out?
And why is it now acceptable to have vocalist that can't sing? I'm not talking scream core or death metal here, I'm talking the vast majority of indie/rock bands on the circuit. "So you wanna be a star, you look shit, you sound awful and you can't sing. you'll go far"! Yeah right, gigging back street pubs until marriage, kids and/or work puts an end to your "musical" ambitions. Sorry but if you sound awful live no matter what effects you use in the studio you'll still not cut it in the big bad world.
That's another thing that bands tend to forget. Once you step onto a stage you are leaving the music business and entering the entertainment business. So for goodness sake entertain. I don't mean a full blown comedy routine (although some do that without even knowing it) or juggling chainsaws between songs. Engage your audience. How many times have you seen a band who at the end of each song say "thanks"to the crowd and then go into a 5 minute band meeting in the middle of the stage before announcing the next song? If people just wanted to hear your music they could stay at home and listen to the CD or download the mp3. But they want more than just sound, they are there to watch and the best way to leave lasting impression on a crowd and maybe pick up a few more fans is to entertain them in a professional manner. This goes further than just the talking to the crowd. How do you dress on stage? Again how many times have you seen a band walk into a venue, set up their gear, then hit the bar and when it comes time for them to do their set they tramp on stage in exactly the same clothes they arrived in? Nothing wrong with styling yourself ..... even the heaviest, meanest mofos on the pro circuit style themselves to suit their image. Being pissed on stage, isn't big and it certainly isn't clever, you're meant to be a professional.
Going back to CDs - "back in the day" when I was performing, studio time was like gold, if you were lucky enough to be able to afford it that is. First time I recorded with a band in 1976 it cost us £150 for 4 hours between midnight and 4am. Then we had to find the money to get the two songs press on a 7" vinyl record... another £200. Nowadays of course it has got easier to record, home studios are now affordable but that doesn't mean you have to record. I must get around 200 to 300 CDs pass across my desk each month and I'd say somewhere in the region of 70% should have waited before hitting the studio. Make sure you are ready to commit your music to a recorded media, no matter what your mates think, shit is still shit.
I've mentioned it before on here somewhere how important it is to get your recordings mastered. You really will hear the difference in a mastered recording. Remember this is your music you are wanting people to buy ... would you buy shoddy goods? Again make it look good. I still get CD sent to me with hand written labels and lined paper inserts. OK you may not have the money to come to me for a decent pro jobbie but everybody has a CD burner on their computers now a days, a simple Cd printer (Epson 300R will only set you back £80) which is ideal for short runs of 20 or 30 at a time (believe me it takes ages but give a good result.) Use decent paper for your inserts, if need be go to Tescos and get some of their A4 photo paper (50 sheet for less than a fiver) If you CD looks good people will pay that little bit more for it.
So if you are ready to go out gigging with a half decent stage show, you've got a box of CDs and some t-shirt to sell, make sure you don't just gig for the sake of it. If you aren't getting a fee you have got to weight up the pros and cons of that gig. Will you be able to sell your merch? Will you gain any new fans --- another good idea when doing gigs is to collect email addresses from the people there. Build your database of potential customers. Because that is what they are at the end of the day, not fans but customers. Don't be fooled by your MySpace friends that number several thousand. Will each one of those "friends" part with their hard earned cash? It's no use saying people aren't buying music anymore -- that's bullshit. Granted a lot more people are getting it illegally via downloads but music sharing has always been around. I used to tape albums off my mates and them off me. If you have a quality product, people will buy, but you have got to get those people interested. I know of bands who are regularly selling a thousand downloads a month without a label just by using creative promotion.
OK now the $64 000 question - How? - Myspace and the host of social networks are fine for making first contact. Getting those people to leave their PCs and come and see you live is another. Good PR is what is needed. You can do this yourself if you have the time and the resources or you can go to a publicist/promotion company (e.g. Green Dragon Media) But don't be surprised if they turn you down even if you can afford their fees. It's no good being a legend in your own lunch time if you can't deliver the goods and a good PR company will want a complete package of a band, one that can perform live to a high standard, whose recorded work is none to shabby and look as if they haven't just arrived from a shift on the bin wagon. Yes it cost money but if you see a return for that money surely it's better than paying out of your own pocket for fuel to a non paying gig? When approaching a promotion company act professional, after all you want them to act professionally on your behalf, don't you. The quickest way from an opened letter to the waste bin is to start with "Hi mate, I'm in a band and we;re the dogs bollocks" or "we're what the world has been waiting for". Nothing wrong with having confidence but don't let it transgress into cockiness. Rejection is always hard and the natural reaction is to hit back, but don't. Promotion companies talk to one another and if your name crops up to many times as trouble nobody will want to touch you no matter how good you think you are. You may have been rejected for a good reason, listen to why and see how you can correct it. You may also get rejected because you don't suit a certain companies profile ... I personally don't handle hip hop, rap or R&B but an associate of mine does so we sometime pass artists to each other.
It's harsh but true, the vast majority of bands will never taste more than the dregs from the drip tray and those who make it to the champaign stage get there not through luck, not through shagging the right people or having loads of mates, but through hard work, cunning and sheer bloody mindedness. Every music forum I go on I hear the same thing -- music business is bad, we are good, we can do it ourselves. Yes you can, to a certain level, after that time you enter the dark and evil work of 'the business'.
If you are content to fool yourselves into believing that all of the above is bullshit and that you have what it takes, fine, so be it. But is it really that impressive to say "we got played on Radio 1 on such and such's show ...at 11 at night" not really. Come and tell me you're getting played on 30 local radio stations around the country on a regular basis and when you play Manchester 100 locals people come to watch you and the following night 100 different people come to watch you in Liverpool, then I might be impressed.
Save the attitude for the stage show, deal with realism, and face the fact you may not be good enough.
[now may the flood of abuse begin]
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Post by iwan on May 6, 2008 18:25:48 GMT
"... mp3s dont seem real. i think if real music formats (you can hold and look at) come back things might get better. where are all the fucking record shops? pinhead,kavern,hmv?"
I know we've had this discussion on here before but it's refreshing for luddites like myself to hear someone who's in a young band supporting music on a real product. I've never downloaded a singe song in my life & can't think of anything more cold & unattractive,I want to own the product,read the sleevenotes & even more sad,smell old vinyl,I buy new releases on vinyl wherever possible & every one of my records & cd's new or old is a treasured possession,how could I ever feel like that over a file on my pc? Regards the record shops,very few second hand shops make enough through footfall to make it viable to maintain a shop when all their time & effort can reap much more via the internet,pinhead being a prime example,many of those that stay afloat are selling stuff to dealers to take home & sell at a profit on ebay. The likes of HMV continue to hammer the nail into the coffin of small indies like Cob by selling things cut price & making huge losses.Music Zone in Wrexham started selling cd's for £3-£4,Phase One went out of business then Music Zone went bankrupt.
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Post by Duncan on May 6, 2008 20:25:44 GMT
Sorry MWJ - I assumed my opinions from the sounds on your Finite Death CD! I still isten to it. Should I seek professional help?
On the subject of 'homegrown' sales - Green Dragon makes some very good points. However, be aware of the fact that if you are selling merchandise, essentially you need to apply for a licence. Those CDRs that are flying off the table are in legal terms, copyrighted by Memorex or BASF or whoever. They're less than pleased when it is learned that someone's made a few thousand quid over the years flogging their gear - if this sounds a little pedantic, bare in mind that musicians within the North Wales scene have already been stuck with a hefty bill for selling such wares. Also - make sure you have permission to sell T-shirts from the manufacturer.
Couple that with tax registration and observing protocol regarding PRS/MCPS and you have quite a complicated set of rules for marketting your act these days.
Where do the maverick managers live these days? Could this be the main problem with selling music in the current climate?
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Wet Behind The Ears
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Post by 0 on May 6, 2008 20:40:07 GMT
Those CDRs that are flying off the table are in legal terms, copyrighted by Memorex or BASF or whoever. I've just double checked this with my wholesaler and while he has heard of it cropping up once (but suspects it was counterfeit CDs not bands own CDs) he assure me that all duty has been paid on the CDs supplied to myself, and therefore it clears bands for selling whatever I put on them. Where do the maverick managers live these days? Could this be the main problem with selling music in the current climate? Believe me there are still plenty of them out there. I have one on my books who I do some promo work for, nice guy, but slippery as an eel and I can see at least one of his artists hitting the big time before too long. He scares me with some of his ideas regarding marketing ploys!!
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Post by Duncan on May 6, 2008 20:46:02 GMT
Incidentally, for an interesting look into how much shit the modern music industry is in, check out this article published in Private Eye last week -
With former cash cow Robbie Williams on indefinite leave hunting aliens in the Nevada desert, EMI is staking all on the forthcoming album by school-run favourites Coldplay. But no-one's singing while they work at the company's HQ.
Citigroup Inc, the US bank that financed Guy Hands' purchase of EMI last year through his private equity company Terra Firma, has decided the $5bn of loans aren't marketable because of "investor anxiety" over the group's future. As a result, the company plans to cut 1,500 to 2,000 jobs - no mean feat form a global workforce of just over 5,000. Since Hands has given the music publishing division a clean bill of health, other parts of the company seem likely to lose close to one in every two jobs. Those lucky enough not to be fired will have to reapply for their jobs, be psychometrically tested and re-interviewed. Happy times indeed.
One industry expert believes Hands' final solution began with the removal of popular chairman and chief executive Tony Wandsworth in January. 'That was Hands saying, 'We can - and will - fuck every single one of you.' It was about breaking people's spirit and bringing in a new culture of spreadsheets and executives with only a passing interest in music.'
EMI says it will now focus on two frontline labels - Virgin and Parlophone - but the game may well be up, with many ot the most popular acts looking to leave under "key man" clauses (if their key contact at the company leaves, they are allowed to terminate their deal immediately). Is a fire sale of prime assets (say the Mute label, Abbey Road studios or even that last jewel in its crown EMI publishing ) before the end of the year out of the question?
(Private Eye, 02/05/2008, P11)
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Post by Matt on May 6, 2008 21:20:41 GMT
i think someone used some of this quote before (probably you Mark, regarding a convo we recently had haha), but fuck it, its never been more relevent on this board than now...
Music's power to describe, compel, renew... It's all a distant second to the offers you can't refuse. Anyone remember when we used to believe that music was a sacred place and not some fucking bank machine?
Not something you just bought and sold? How could we have been so naive? Well, I think when all is said and done, just cause we were young doesn't mean we were wrong.
And I'll rock back and forth on this two-bit hobbyhorse 'til she splinters and gives way. I'll tend the flowers by her grave. And whisper her name.
If anyone out there understands can I please see a show of hands just so I know I'm not insane? Ever get the feeling you've been played?
Well, that's rock for sustainable capitalism and you know, we may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first. That's how the world works.
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Post by Duncan on May 6, 2008 21:40:22 GMT
Good point well made.
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Post by juz on May 7, 2008 3:42:58 GMT
Music's power to describe, compel, renew... It's all a distant second to the offers you can't refuse. Anyone remember when we used to believe that music was a sacred place and not some fucking bank machine? Not something you just bought and sold? How could we have been so naive? Well, I think when all is said and done, just cause we were young doesn't mean we were wrong. And I'll rock back and forth on this two-bit hobbyhorse 'til she splinters and gives way. I'll tend the flowers by her grave. And whisper her name. If anyone out there understands can I please see a show of hands just so I know I'm not insane? Ever get the feeling you've been played? Well, that's rock for sustainable capitalism and you know, we may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first. That's how the world works. nice lyrics.
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